Episode 14: Navigating the Complexities of Hiring Foreign Healthcare Practitioners - Rex F. Famitangco

Intro [00:00:03]:

Welcome to the Elaborate Topics podcast, where we focus on lab specific strategies for medical laboratory professionals. We're proud to be the healthcare detectives that work behind the scenes to get the results needed to influence medical decisions. Let's grow together and jump right into the lab.

Tywauna W [00:00:25]:

Hi, friends. Welcome to another episode of Elaborate Topics. We are your host, Tywana Wilson and Stephanie Whitehead. We are excited to bring to you another topic that will benefit lab leaders and those foreign healthcare practitioners that are looking to excel inside of a US. Laboratory. We will be talking about navigating the complexities of hiring foreign healthcare practitioners. And we have an expert that will be giving us those pro tips that will be helpful for each of us, especially as we navigate the challenges of the workforce shortage. So before I let you know who our special guest is, make sure you tune in each week, each and every Tuesday, to a new episode of Elaborate Topics. Share this out with your team and anybody who could benefit from listening to the episodes. We have over 140 episodes to date. You can find them on direct impact broadcasting spotify. We are a lab vine partner or your favorite podcast platform. So go ahead. Wherever you listen to your podcast, bookmark this show and share it out with a friend. And of course, we would love to hear from you so that we can bring other topics that you care about and want to know ways that we can improve and highlight other medical laboratory professionals and unsung or maybe unknown heroes to you all as well. So, without further ado stephanie. I'm excited. Are you excited?

Stephanie W [00:02:13]:

I'm very excited. And I'm going to be taking notes from my own laboratory because this is a hot topic, like you said, especially as we try to find strategies to deal with the workforce shortage. So get out your pens and papers. We got an expert with us today, people.

Tywauna W [00:02:31]:

All right, well, without further ado, I'm going to bring on one of my lab friends and fellow workforce steering committee partner, Rex from A Tongo. And I jacked that up. Even though I practiced, I practice it. So please give me some grace, Rex, because I definitely messed that up. But Rex, welcome to the show.

Rex F [00:02:57]:

Hello, my dear colleagues. My friends and I would like to express my gratitude to the three of you, Tywauna, Stephanie and Lona, for having me on this wonderful podcast. And this is a platform that I believe empowers the medical laboratory professionals and most especially to the women in science. So I'm happy to be a part of this, and it's an honor to share my experience and my opinion and thank you for the things that you do and continue to do for our profession.

Tywauna W [00:03:38]:

Well, thank you, Rex. We are appreciative to have laboratory professionals such as yourself to be on our platform. And thank you for the kind words. We definitely appreciate it. This is a labor of love. But we know that it is necessary to do this great work. Let me tell the listeners a little bit about you and then you can go into detail. But you've been a practicing medical laboratory scientist and laboratory administrative director at Morrow County Community Hospital in Bridgeport, Nebraska. You formally held roles as the program director and faculty of the MLT, MLA and PBT at Western Nebraska Community College in Scots Bluff, Nebraska, which you developed and started. That is amazing. You've served as the national president of the Philippine Association of Medical Technologies USA incorporated and founding president of Pamit USA, the Nebraska chapter. You are an active member and volunteer with the ASCP and help and still holds many leadership roles. You have also been on the ASCP Board of Certification, Board of Governors, and that is just a little bit about what you have done. You have done so much. But before I let you kind of elaborate a little bit more on your laboratory leadership journey, I just want to share with the listeners how this topic came to be. So Rex and I and Stephanie, we were at the ASCP Leadership Forum and as we were talking about employing international laboratorians into our laboratories and the challenges of that. And we know that it's becoming one of the big topics in our industry. And I was sitting there right across from Rex and he said, you know, that's how I started my journey here, which I didn't know. I was like, wow. And so we started talking about Rex's journey to the US. And how he got to working in the medical laboratory. And what was fascinating to me is that not only did Rex use that opportunity to springboard of working in the medical laboratory, but Rex has started programs for medical laboratory technician and scientists. He has gotten involved with the professional societies, he raised that ceiling for himself. And he has really been a champion and an advocate for medical laboratory professionals as well as our foreign healthcare practitioners. With him being in a leadership role and having that seat at the table to employ foreign healthcare practitioners, he really knows his stuff. And so sometimes we see this kind of emerging trend of hiring international scientists or foreign healthcare practitioners. But it's interesting, and I think this is going to be beneficial for you all to know firsthand from somebody who not only traveled the path, but is also on the other side of being able to hire others that are on that path. So Rex, outside of all the professional accolades that I talked about, tell us a little bit about your journey, your lab journey.

Stephanie W [00:07:24]:

So.

Rex F [00:07:26]:

This is a very important year for me as well here at Moral County Community Hospital. As I go back and as I recall, this is my 20th year at the hospital. Last January, I celebrated my 20th year. So my childhood dream was really to become a medical doctor. My love of science, medical mysteries. I can remember competing on my biology class, on science fair, and I just love doing lab projects. And my passion also to help others, led me to the medical laboratory degree. So 26 years later, I'm still here. I'm still with the profession. I'm still in love with the profession and continue to love the profession. I am lucky to have quite a few mentors. I consider you both and Lona too, as my mentors, and I learn from you guys. And whenever we interact and see at the hallways or having a coffee at the ASAP conferences, I learn from you guys. And I really am happy with the mentors I have throughout my life. With that, I look up to you guys. You pushed me to become a better laboratory professional and as well as my family, of course, because they are ever supportive of whatever I do. So besides you guys and these individuals, life experiences motivates me. I think I gave you this example when we were chatting last few months ago. It was during my internship, during my clinical rotation way back to the Philippines. In the Philippines, when I was introduced to ASCP, because the chief Medical Laboratory technologist, or the lab director, came from the United States and moved to the Philippines, and she was ASCP certified. That's the first time I heard about ASCP. So life moved on, went to Saudi Arabia, then from Saudi Arabia, my colleague in the Philippines, which I kept in touch with. All of a sudden, I lost track of her. Then the next thing I know, she was in New Mexico. Then from New Mexico, I said, how did you get to New Mexico? I was recruited. I have a recruiter. So knowing that my parents will be migrating to the United States, so I said, I think it's a great move or career move if I move to the United States too, so all of our families could be together. So with the recruiter, I was able to move here in Bridgeport. Then, just like what you said, I tried to find something that I could excel and be of use. So I went back to school, went back to Michigan, Michigan State University to take my master's program. Towards the end of the program, I was thinking of testing waters, looking for possible employers, so I applied for jobs. However, during those times, ASAP Board of Certification was still not available for foreign workers. You have to have that five years working experience in a US lab, clear certified Gap or AABB accredited labs for you to be able to sit for the exam. So I was not eligible yet. However, I was already certified by AMD. Then the first question that was asked to me, are you ASCP certified? And I said, I will be eligible this December, but I am AMT Mt certified at this moment. And the answer I got is, thank you for your time. Goodbye. So that particular life experience motivated me to become a better technologist, to strive my hardest, to pass that exam and complete my master's degree following spring. Fast forward. I was about to graduate. I'm attending my graduation. Then my CEO said, you have to stop at a conference in Omaha, an ASCLS Spring conference. So I didn't know somebody nominated me. I won the new ASLs Nebraska Excellence Award. Then after receiving that award, a gentleman came to me and told me, you might not know me, but I interviewed you, and I regret letting you go or not hiring you. So congratulations on your award. So doors might close to us. Life experience is really a great motivational piece of me to excel more and be better for our patients and the communities that we do serve.

Tywauna W [00:13:18]:

Wow, such a story of resilience and dedication, even though you had your AMT, going back and making sure that you had your ASCP. And I think that in itself was a powerful tidbit, in that sometimes you have to be willing to go the extra mile to be able to move to whatever is that next level or next goal that you have set for yourself. So being able to go that extra mile, it could be picking up an additional certification or degree or experience, depending on what that might be, and then just staying the course. Even if you hear no, it doesn't mean no forever. It just means not now. And so thank you for talking about that and still moving forward in your path. I know this is a big thing, too, that we often hear a lot about rural laboratories, and your experience is very different in a rural laboratory versus a big city laboratory or reference laboratory. So talk to us a little bit about your experience working in a rural lab, and how have recruiting foreign healthcare practitioners helped with your staffing shortages? So talk about some of those challenges that you all have, because sometimes it seems like you all are in a bubble, and we're trying to outfit some of the strategies that work in bigger cities when they don't necessarily work. So talk to us a little bit about that.

Rex F [00:14:57]:

So I started in a university hospital, worked there for two years, then transferred to a military hospital. Then now, 20 years later, I'm in a rural community setting. So what I love with rural communities, first off, there's no traffic. The cost of living is very low. You know, your neighbors, the community members are very friendly. You wave each other while driving at the highway or whatnot. But what I love the most is the interaction that we have with our patients that makes a special connection between you as the scientist and that particular specimen, because you know where the specimen came from and you know the history of that specimen. And unlike my experience, let's say, in saudi Arabia. I know the specimen by the number. I don't feel any connection to that specimen except for that needs to be tested. And this is what I found out and reported because it was a big volume laboratory, a busy laboratory that you have 500 CBCS each day, but in here you might not have the volume, but the care that you give to the specimen is what I love the most, the personal care that you have. And working as a laboratory leader, it's a good experience because you become a well rounded leader in every aspect. Just like what I mentioned. I celebrated 20 years here and recruiting laboratory professionals. Foreign practitioners have been very helpful in our organization, especially when there are no qualified or no US citizen or permanent resident that's applying for the position, especially during the height of the pandemic. And right now as well, with the workforce shortage just like everybody else, our workload doubled and tripled during the height of the pandemic because we were the first hospital in western Nebraska to offer the PCR testing and within 24 hours resulting, so people would come over and travel two to 4 hours just to visit us. And with that, the workload and the increased volume patients, we even did health fairs during that time. So we definitely need help. And just like me, I started as a foreign worker. It helped us tremendously because you have the commitment, you know, these individuals are certified and qualified. So the quality that they bring, the commitment and dedication was given to our patients and our community for us to fulfill our mission, which is to serve them. Give quality care close to home.

Tywauna W [00:18:31]:

Got it. And I'm happy you talked about being a foreign health care practitioner. I think that's a good kind of transition to looking at it from that lens of foreign healthcare practitioners. I know that there are many staffing organizations that help our foreign colleagues to secure laboratory jobs here in the US. And so I do have a couple of questions from the practitioners vantage point. How would one of our form practitioner colleagues go about finding a staffing or recruiting agency to work with? And are there any questions or considerations they should ask of the firm before agreeing to work with them? So I know that we have an international base that listens to this podcast and we get questions all the time from colleagues about working here in the United States. So since we have the expert on board, then I will transition that question to you. Rex.

Rex F [00:19:43]:

Social media plays a big part. The ads from social media, from Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, second word of mouth. If you have a friend just like me, it's through word of mouth. I asked my friend, who was your recruiter? So word of mouth is one powerful thing. Too many of the recruitment agencies go to a specific country and they do recruitment. They call it recruitment caravans as well, then some still do the traditional paper based ads on the newspaper. And now with the new generation, they basically go to the hospital's website and browse for openings and ask the hospital's HR if they hire foreign nationals. So those are some, to name a few, to find. Recruiting Agency as for considerations or questions to ask to a recruitment firm, applicants must do his or her homework prior to committing to a specific recruitment agency. Scams are all over and everywhere. So research, do some fact checks if this is a firm or affiliated or accredited in their respective countries to their foreign labor offices or even here to the state, if they have affiliation to the state or registered through the state, if this firm has a good reputation and maybe a good thing to ask. Also, their rejection rate with foreign visa applications, work visa or permanent residency rejection rates and processing times right now in the Internet, you can also find performance ratings asking for references. And the most important thing, reviewing that agreement to the dot if you're not sure with the agreement, if you have a friend or have a legal consultation on the agreement, if possible.

Stephanie W [00:22:18]:

Awesome. And like TaiwanA said, I know that we have an amazing international audience that tunes into this show, and we get so many questions from them. So as they do their homework, another question I guess, to follow up from that response would be are there any particular challenges that a foreign practitioner should consider or be aware of that they might face when it comes to getting hired in a US. Medical laboratory? And I guess in addition to that, what advice would you give in terms of looking to get hired since you've kind of walked that road before?

Rex F [00:22:59]:

So let's reference the ASCP Board of Certification data. So there are now close to seven or 18,000 now, perhaps, because as of December 31, 2021, there are 17,438 ASAP certificates from 111 countries. And so there's a lot there, certified and qualified individuals who could help us fill the gap on our current workforce shortage. And just like what you said, Stephanie, there are challenges for them when it comes to migrating here to our great country. And let's use the Philippines, for example, since majority of the certificates are from the Philippines, which is around 72% of the 17,000. So, first off, pre departure challenges, definitely you have to have completed your bachelor's degree. So educational background, you must have completed your Bsmls. Your transcripts must be evaluated. Inspectors, surveyors will look for that foreign foreign transcript, equivalency. Second, they should be at least certified or licensed to the specific state that they are going or eyeing to work for international licensure or the certification. Second, you have to be tested reading comprehension, writing comprehension, and tests of spoken English. So you have to pass that specific English language proficiency exam. Then you have your US visa requirements then your incountry requirements, your medical exam and vaccinations. So those aspects also have a dollar equivalent. So the money aspect plus all those, what I've mentioned are some of the challenges because it takes time to complete those.

Stephanie W [00:25:28]:

So in addition to the practitioners, I mentioned at the beginning that I'm going to be taking a lot of notes, because I know there's also a lot of administrators who listen who are kind of like you and I. Were talking about before our recording are looking at how we continue to staff for the growth in our laboratories and try to find solutions to the decreased number of candidates that we have. For the open number of vacancies that we have. So I'd like to shift, if I could, from talking about this of the perspective of the practitioner to talking about this from the perspective of the laboratory administration, which you are lucky enough to kind of have expertise on both sides of that coin. So when you're looking at this as a laboratory manager trying to fill your positions, or director or person in leadership, what are the primary challenges? Whether you are working in a not for profit organization or a for profit organization, what are some of the challenges that come with hiring foreign healthcare practitioners? And how long is the process like, where do you start?

Rex F [00:26:40]:

That's a very good question. How do we start? How do we even start? How long? Our US immigration system is very complex and employment based. Immigration is governed by elaborate laws, regulations, agenda, policy memorandum, court decision and interpretative guidelines. That's why sometimes US immigration is compared to the tax code because there's no complex and clear cut answers, particularly on visa filing. So money is one budget because you would be spending a lot, not a lot, but quite a few for filing fees. And if you are thinking of hiring an attorney or immigration lawyer to help you out, second the processing time. The processing time really depends on the type of application that you file. So let me start from the very beginning when it comes to the process itself. So we know all as a leader, we define the job description, blah blah, blah, the responsibilities of the position. Then the next thing we should do or must do is to a rigorous recruiting process within our country. And if there's no qualified US permanent resident and US citizen after a few months of job posting, then we resort to foreign nationals. Then after that you determine whether you want to file a non immigrant visa or an immigrant visa. A non immigrant visa is your work visas. And for us we fall under the H, one B visa now, then the other is the immigrant visa, which is your permanent residency. And there are different categories there as well. So once you determine which route you're going to take, then you obtain the labor certification. So the labor certification you will submit labor Condition Application, which will basically do insurance verification for your facility and prevailing wages and benefits for the position, which has to be met by the employer. I mentioned about the money or the budget because as an employer, you assume all the expenses for filing the visa, filing for your employees. And if it takes about 90 days for an immigrant visa to be completed, or longer, 90 days is a minimum. Now, if you want to expedite, you have to pay for an extra fee and that's about $1,500. Then you'll get the results of that processing within 15 days. So after that, then they send that to the consulate or embassy for the specific country. Then you have additional fees there, depending upon the country. So you have to wait for the interview. Then once the interview is done, then you come to the country. So besides that, we have seen some difficulties also on technical competencies. And the weakest areas are blood banking and microbiology. So as an employer, if you have those sections and if you are thinking or planning to employ the foreign practitioners on those area, you must have a bridge program to enhance and make them a better technologies or scientists on those particular area. And there are a few bad eggs as well, sometimes created by the recruiters. So what we've seen again from our colleagues, an experience from our colleague, from ASCP we talked about it, and the recruiter that they use basically, how would I say it, they forge the resume of the applicant, saying that this particular applicant is a generalist. Then of course we all know the basic questions blah blah, blah. When the scientist came over, the scientist experience is basically histology. This person doesn't have any core lab background. So that was a big shock. And then she forwarded me the resume. The resume said generalist. Then I asked for how about the other candidates? It's just like a template that they just copy and paste. So beware of those. I advise her have a mechanism, just like what we do have a mechanism to assess at least their basic technical skills. And what I do is maybe ten slides for urine analysis, hematology, blood banking, micro, and I just ask them to identify those cells. Then that's just a pressure to them as well because they don't know the technical component. So when they come to the interview proper, if they have missed some of the cells, they're kind of nervous already because they kept on going back to that particular slide that they missed, then we can measure how well they work under pressure.

Stephanie W [00:34:01]:

So are you doing this process as part of your interview or are you screening them prior to showing slides and the people who can assess the slides correctly and then you're selecting them for a follow up interview.

Rex F [00:34:16]:

So what we do here in our facility, I ask my team to screen the resumes. So I have a group of my team to screen the resumes. Then after screening the resumes, then we invite them for we don't call it technical interview, but we call it initial interview. But technically it's a technical interview, so they don't know it's a technical interview. So that's the wow factor of it. Then we can assess if they can work under pressure, then the final interview is with the CEO. So we have three different stages so we can find the right candidate for us.

Stephanie W [00:35:07]:

Once the candidate is on boarded, what are some of the are there time frame stipulations similar to contract employees or is that part of the non immigrant versus immigrant in terms of the visa?

Rex F [00:35:22]:

Yes, if you are non immigrant, you are allowed to work for at least six years. The first initial visa is for three years, then another three years is given. So technically six years, but you have the option to file for a petition for them to become a permanent resident. And this is where I'll put myself an example. The foreign workers could be an interim solution to our workforce shortage. However, if you choose the right person, they can be a long term solution as well. So, one thing as an employer, we take care of our foreign workers, treat them well, just like everybody else, no exception, and assist them to their new life here in America.

Stephanie W [00:36:37]:

So when you say you in your organization and it sounds like you guys have a pretty detailed and established process for this workflow. So I would encourage you to, after we finish our conversation, to really and we'll put it in the show notes also, but let the listeners know how they can connect with you because you'll probably have a lot of people who want to follow up and have questions and be able to use some of your best practices. But when you say that you take care of your foreign workers, what are some examples of the things that you do to help them acclimate to their lives in the US. Inside and outside of work? And then what are some of the things you do with your team to really set the culture so these foreign practitioners feel welcome as a part of your teammates in the laboratory?

Rex F [00:37:31]:

So basically, when they come to the country, all they have is their two suitcases. That's it. So we help them find their apartments, and when you find their apartment, there's no furniture at all. So being the first foreign worker in this organization, I have nothing, didn't have anything when I came. So what we do, I'm blessed for being given these blessings and opportunity. I pay it forward. And that's what I told my team too. Let's help them out. So there's ten of us in my team, and I usually give the bedroom showcase. So meaning to say, a bed, a bedsheets, anything that pertains to the bedroom. Then one person would take care of kitchenware, one person would take care of the bathroom, one person would take care of. We just pay it forward and be grateful that we were given this opportunity to work for this great country. When it comes to other things, we help them overcome their homesickness, especially those who are newly grads that this is their first time coming out of their country. So we introduce them to the community, to the Filipino community, or whatever groups that they might be interested in. And for me, the most important thing is protecting them from racial discrimination, because at this point, would you imagine it still happens and standing up for them because it do exist, and it's very hard to disregard as a foreign worker. So standing up for them and telling them that you have a voice, you don't have to say nothing. If something happens, let us know, because it's a workplace stressor, and you don't want that for foreign workers because they don't have anybody else besides you and their teammates.

Stephanie W [00:40:08]:

Are there any common misconceptions or myths about hiring foreign practitioners or about the immigration process that you like to debunk? For the listeners.

Rex F [00:40:26]:

Hiding foreign workers is not an easy process, and it's long. It's tedious for both parties. However, if you select the correct candidate, just like what I said, the interim solution could be a permanent solution. And what they're here for is to help your patients and help the community. So they're not here to take away our jobs, but they are here to help our patients to be better.

Stephanie W [00:41:05]:

Awesome. You've given so much great information here. As we wrap up, what advice would you give to the listeners about this topic? We know, like we've talked about so many times, and it's been really well documented, that we've got to be able, as a community and as a laboratory profession, to be able to think outside of the box, make hard decisions, and make tough choices and look at our workforce and our workforce options differently in order to kind of get through this time. And this seems like a very viable, doable, and efficient solution. So what advice would you give to listeners, either practitioners or laboratories that are listening right now?

Rex F [00:41:49]:

So I forgot to mention Stephanie. Whenever I visit other countries, speaking to the students and other practitioners in that particular country, I usually ask them, if you want to work in the United States, list down what your goals are. If it's a short term goal, then by no means be a temporary worker. Go to a staffing agency, be a traveler. If you're seeking for a long term, long term goal and become a permanent resident or a naturalized US. Citizen, then the best route for you is to become permanent. And you might seek for a recruitment agency that will fill you to become a permanent worker in that particular workplace. But that cost money. I spent close to $5,000 during my. Time for the recruiter anyhow. Just knowing your goals. Most importantly, also research where you're going. Know the community. Because employers, particularly in rural areas, spend money, their time, their energy for you, for these foreign practitioners. So honor the agreements, honor the time commitment, especially when the employers petition you for permanent residency. Most of them, once they get the permanent residency, they leave and go to urban areas. Guess what? There might be repercussions for doing that. Your path to citizenship might be canceled. Your green card permanent residency might be canceled as well. So honor your time commitment and be prepared and be flexible as possible for both parties. Because, just like what I said, the immigration system is kind of complex.

Stephanie W [00:44:15]:

I guess. One more question before we wrap up from the laboratory aspect. If you do do all the hard work to bring on a foreign practitioner, and what happens if it doesn't work out before the time frame comes or it's working for the laboratory? But as a foreign practitioner, this just isn't the right environment for me, and I want to go up the street to another health system. Are the practitioners able to move around that local city area in the state, or does the health system or the laboratory, are they able to let go of that person? If it doesn't seem to be working out? What are the recourses on either side if it doesn't seem to be a good fit?

Rex F [00:44:59]:

Tywauna and I had a very good conversation on that one.

Tywauna W [00:45:03]:

Remember they wanted I absolutely do. And when Stephanie started talking, I was like, that question is a great question. So thank you, Stephanie, for mentioning that. And, yes, I do remember that.

Rex F [00:45:17]:

So the answer is yes, they are able to transfer to another facility. Just like what I told TaiwanA. I put myself into their shoes. They spent a lot of money already coming to the United States, and they have at least 120 days to look for an employer. If they miss that window, then they are unlawful already. They have unlawful stay. So if they're not meeting the standards, if they're not meeting the job expectations, then we have this conversation. We will have a conversation with that employee saying, it's not working for us. We're terminating your contract. You're given to X number of days to work and basically contact the recruiter and have them look for another job for that particular worker. The visa can be transferred to a different employer, but the total validity is still three years. Let's say this person worked for me for one and a half year, then transferred to your facility, Stephanie, so he only have one and a half year to work for you.

Tywauna W [00:46:38]:

Wow. That was good. Rex. We here at elaborate topics. We absolutely love you. And anytime you talk and I know I have to wrap it up, but anytime you talk you can hear your heart shining through. You give so much wisdom and I just love that you receive mentorship and yet you're giving that mentorship for anybody that comes in contact with you. So, as you said, it was a blessing for you to be here with us. It was really a blessing for us to have you here. So thank you so much for sharing. You gave a lot of great insight and I'm sure that the listeners would like to get and stay connected with you. So how are they able to do that?

Rex F [00:47:25]:

They can follow me on Twitter, on LinkedIn. It's because of you, TaiwanA. Why? I have LinkedIn. We had that conversation as well. So I have LinkedIn. It's Rex Famitanko for LinkedIn rex MLS for Twitter and the real rex MLS for Instagram and for Facebook. It's Rex Famitanko. And thank you. Thank you again, my gratitude to all of you for inviting me and for this incredible platform for us.

Stephanie W [00:48:03]:

Awesome.

Tywauna W [00:48:04]:

Again, thank you so much. This is one of those topics that it's getting a lot of traction and I think it's important to get insight from a person who has walked the path, who's employing individuals who's walking the path. And so your knowledge and insight has been priceless, my friend. So thank you so much for joining us. We have enjoyed having you here at the table, here at our roundtable at Elaborate Topics. Listeners and viewers, we would love to hear from you. Share your thoughts on this episode. What were your takeaways? What did you learn? We have a page full of notes that we have gathered, and even though I have talked to Rex about this, I have still learned something new just from this discussion. So thank you so much for tuning in, share it out with a friend, let us know, give us a video review. We would love to feature you and hear your thoughts. And until next time, my friends, have an amazing week.

Outro [00:49:15]:

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Elaborate Topics where your hosts discussed relevant strategies for laboratory professionals. Please subscribe to this podcast on your favorite podcast platform and listen to us on Directimpactbroadcasting.com. Stay tuned for another episode with information you can use to excel in your laboratory career.